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| Moderated by: Neo | Page: 1 2   |
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| Democrats pull tax cheat bill | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Fri Mar 5th, 2010 02:27 am |
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Neo Head Loon - Original M.A.I.M. 
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http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/33933_Page2.html Democrats pull tax cheat bill By ERIKA LOVLEY | 3/4/10 4:33 PM EST Legislation that would force government and Hill staffers to pay back taxes or lose their jobs was pulled from House committee markup today after Democrats hit the brakes. Rep. Stephen Lynch (D-Mass.), who chairs the House Oversight and Government Reform subcommittee that oversees government workers, told POLITICO he was concerned that the legislation would kick workers to the curb before it could be determined if the IRS had erred. “The employee can fight it, but they don’t have a job,” Lynch said during a committee markup today. “In 80 percent of [default] cases there is a dispute,” Lynch later told POLITICO. “The people are arguing with the IRS about business expenses, non-business expenses, deductions, tax credits and exemptions. And in a lot of these cases, the IRS turns out to be wrong. I’m not sure how many of those cases apply to Senate and House staffers, but just because you’re fighting with the IRS doesn’t mean you’re wrong.” The legislation sponsored by Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah) would cause federal employees who defaulted on their taxes to lose their jobs, including the hundreds of congressional and Hill staffers who owe the government millions of dollars. In 2008 alone, 447 House employees and 231 Senate workers didn’t pay their taxes, according to figures from the IRS, Office of Personnel Management, and Department of Defense. Federal employees in the U.S. House of Representatives owed more than $5.8 million in unpaid taxes in 2008. The Senate employees owe more than $2.46 million, according to figures. But some Republicans, including Chaffetz, said he suspects that’s not the only reason why Democrats didn’t support it. “I think the subtext is the Democrat’s support for unions,” said Chaffetz, a committee member. “Federal employees should not be more protected than others.” “Some Democrats see this as an attack on federal workers that’s not merited,” argued a Democratic committee aide. “If you don’t pay taxes, your wages are garnished automatically. It’s not hard for the IRS to find a federal worker…There may be some question as to whether this is really necessary on the federal employee side.” But Chaffetz wants congressional employees held to a strict standard. "We have over 600 staffers on Capitol Hill not paying their taxes. That’s just not acceptable,” Chaffetz said in an interview with POLITICO yesterday. “It’s disingenuous to take federal taxpayer dollars and not pay your full share of taxes. It’s wrong.” Chaffetz’s legislation was offered as an amendment this morning during the Oversight Committee’s markup to a larger bipartisan-supported bill, which would prevent the government from working with government contractors that have failed to pay their taxes. House Committee Chairman Edolphus Towns (D-N.Y.) even sweetened Chaffetz’s language for Democrats today by giving workers wiggle room if they were in the midst of a payment plan with the IRS or if they were experiencing serious hardships. But Towns pulled the entire bill from markup after Democrats shot down their own chairman’s compromise, a move Ranking Member Darrell Issa called “disappointing.” “There was a bipartisan effort and compromise reached with Chairman Towns to create consequences for both Federal contractors and Federal employees who are seriously delinquent in paying their taxes to the IRS,” said Issa in a statement. “I am thoroughly disappointed that Democrats rejected the chairman’s compromise and stubbornly refused to work with him on an effort to hold Federal employees to the same standard as the private sector. There needs to be consequences for both contractors and federal employees who fail to pay their taxes.” Congress has attempted in the past to stop tax-cheating contractors from getting federal contracts, but the legislation has never made it to the president’s desk. That could change this year. President Obama has also been on the case of tax defaulters. He sent a letter to federal agencies earlier this year warning that the White House would be monitoring federal contractors who had defaulted on their taxes, and could prevent them from getting additional contracts. A recent Government Accountability Office study estimated that government contractors owe the government nearly $5 billion in back taxes. Comment: And I should continue to pay my taxes because why? This is effing ridiculous, insane, disgusting, troubling, criminal, but by no means surprising as it is yet another example of the corruption of Congress, and should disgust all Americans of all political stripes. Nancy Pelosi and her "draining the swamp" bullshit! Most "ethical and transparent Congress in our history", yeah right!  The legislation sponsored by Rep. Jason Chaffetz would cause federal employees who defaulted on their taxes to lose their jobs. Photo: AP
____________________ (Avatar created by OMNT.) “Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” Winston Churhill |
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| Posted: Fri Mar 5th, 2010 09:44 pm |
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D-IIIII Member 
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Here's an idea. Fucking arrest them. Start with Geithner.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 6th, 2010 01:14 am |
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3rd Post |
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Neo Head Loon - Original M.A.I.M.
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D-IIIII wrote: Here's an idea. Fucking arrest them. Start with Geithner. Agreed. Good luck with that idea amigo. As we can see by this action, the Democrats have no interest in the so called "most clean and transparent Congress in history" let alone the "draining of the swamp" that Pelosi chirped about. Hypocrites, and that includes many in the GOP. I'm sick of it and it's just getting worse and I'm wondering.....when is enough going to be enough for the rest of us struggling to survive what these ass-hats have done to us?
____________________ (Avatar created by OMNT.) “Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” Winston Churhill |
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| Posted: Sat Mar 6th, 2010 02:13 pm |
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YOGI Member 
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NEO...I find myself agreeing with Rep. Lynch. How would an employee on the Hill avoid having taxes withheld from his pay anyway?
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| Posted: Sat Mar 6th, 2010 10:36 pm |
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5th Post |
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Neo Head Loon - Original M.A.I.M.
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YOGI wrote: NEO...I find myself agreeing with Rep. Lynch. How would an employee on the Hill avoid having taxes withheld from his pay anyway? Apparently you're not familiar with how the system works like when you get hired and you fill out a W-2 (or is it 4?). Just claim 4 or 5 or....dependents which means less withholding. Then when you do your taxes, you itemize with all kinds of cute numbers games. Lets not forget omissions of income earned or gifts received.... Red flags go up, the I.R.S. audits, you appeal, and you get your boss (the big shot Congressman or woman) to make it go away or at least stall the hell out of it.
____________________ (Avatar created by OMNT.) “Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” Winston Churhill |
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| Posted: Sun Mar 7th, 2010 12:49 am |
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YOGI Member
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NEO...Have you ever been self-employed? Last edited on Sun Mar 7th, 2010 12:56 am by YOGI |
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| Posted: Sun Mar 7th, 2010 01:46 am |
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Neo Head Loon - Original M.A.I.M.
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YOGI wrote: NEO...Have you ever been self-employed? Yes I have back in the 80's so what's your point Doctor YOGI 
____________________ (Avatar created by OMNT.) “Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” Winston Churhill |
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| Posted: Sun Mar 7th, 2010 02:29 am |
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YOGI Member
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Neo wrote: YOGI wrote:NEO...Have you ever been self-employed? Only this very strange attitude that because our IRS claims one owes taxes, they should be deprived of working, maybe?
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| Posted: Sun Mar 7th, 2010 03:57 am |
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9th Post |
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Neo Head Loon - Original M.A.I.M.
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YOGI wrote: Neo wrote:YOGI wrote:NEO...Have you ever been self-employed? Well, when it comes to the scum sucking parasites of the State and Federal governments, if they are tax cheats, hell yes. Quit making excuses and start holding people to the same shit we all have to be held to amigo. I loathe the I.R.S., but these people get free pass's or special treatments.
____________________ (Avatar created by OMNT.) “Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” Winston Churhill |
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| Posted: Sun Mar 7th, 2010 04:11 am |
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10th Post |
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Mike Mitrosky Administrator 
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Neo wrote: YOGI wrote:Neo wrote:YOGI wrote:NEO...Have you ever been self-employed? The irony is that the "income tax" is really a tax on privilege. The amount of tax due is determined from the amount of profit received from this privilege. People who are employed by the federal govt. have the privilege of working for the federal govt and must pay taxes. Alien workers who come into America and have the privilege of working here must pay taxes on this privilege as well. Corporations (Which are given a charter under the government - another privilege) must pay a tax on said privilege determined by the amount of their corporate profit. But regular chaps who are American citizens and bust their ass 40 hours a week or have their own business do not require any privilege to go out and earn their living.. They have the right to do so and therefore not required to pay a tax on a right.
____________________ "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." - Thomas Paine |
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| Posted: Sun Mar 7th, 2010 01:27 pm |
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11th Post |
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AgentOregon Lead Administrator 
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Mike Mitrosky wrote: But regular chaps who are American citizens and bust their ass 40 hours a week or have their own business do not require any privilege to go out and earn their living.. They have the right to do so and therefore not required to pay a tax on a right. There may be nothing in the Constitution specifically mentioning income tax but that doesn't make it unconstitutional. Congress enacted all the necessary underlying laws authorizing levying of taxes. Individuals sometimes may go for several years without paying taxes...but eventually the bureaucracy will catch up with them. There are plenty of anti-tax activists and like-minded followers now cooling their jets in federal prisons for income tax evasion.
____________________ Youth is fleeting but immaturity can last a lifetime. AO Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. H.L.Mencken |
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| Posted: Sun Mar 7th, 2010 06:08 pm |
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YOGI Member
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Neo wrote: YOGI wrote:Neo wrote:YOGI wrote:NEO...Have you ever been self-employed? I'm not making excuses, Neo. All I'm seeing is that you and others are advocating firing Folks from their job based upon an IRS assertion they didn't pay enough tax! A conviction of income tax evasion...maybe. Have you taken the time to look up what the IRS claims ordinary Americans owe in back taxes?
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| Posted: Sun Mar 7th, 2010 06:47 pm |
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13th Post |
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YOGI Member
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AgentOregon wrote: Mike Mitrosky wrote:But regular chaps who are American citizens and bust their ass 40 hours a week or have their own business do not require any privilege to go out and earn their living.. They have the right to do so and therefore not required to pay a tax on a right. AO...I'm not sure your description reflects what's being discussed. Far as I know, all employees have monies withheld from their pay and sent to the IRS. It makes NO sense that one would NOT file a return, doesn't it, unless they have no hope of a refund? The IRS has already collected those monies, though.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 7th, 2010 08:49 pm |
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AgentOregon Lead Administrator
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YOGI wrote:
Its possible I've gone off on a tangent...wouldn't be the first time. One of the ploys used by employees to avoid paying income tax is to claim they have 12 kids...so nothing or little is withheld...and then they don't file. This can go on for quite some time, or so I've been told. And, of course, many other types of income are received with no withholding...often no records. Cash transactions. Barter. There was a small animal vet in Eugene OR some years ago who tried to barter for his services but the IRS, apparently, wanted their cut anyway.
____________________ Youth is fleeting but immaturity can last a lifetime. AO Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. H.L.Mencken |
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| Posted: Sun Mar 7th, 2010 09:30 pm |
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Neo Head Loon - Original M.A.I.M.
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YOGI wrote: Neo wrote:YOGI wrote:Neo wrote:YOGI wrote:NEO...Have you ever been self-employed? Soldiers work for the Federal Government as well and if they didn't file, or filed incorrectly on purpose to obtain advantage in say deductions, what do you suppose would happen to them when their Commander gets wind of it? Why should civilian Fed and State workers be exempted?
____________________ (Avatar created by OMNT.) “Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” Winston Churhill |
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| Posted: Mon Mar 8th, 2010 02:09 am |
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Mike Mitrosky Administrator
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AgentOregon wrote: Mike Mitrosky wrote:But regular chaps who are American citizens and bust their ass 40 hours a week or have their own business do not require any privilege to go out and earn their living.. They have the right to do so and therefore not required to pay a tax on a right. The govt can tax anything it wants to. It just has to do it in a certain way.. but I digress. We can disagree whether or not the income tax laws are lawful or not.. But I think everybody can agree that the way these laws are enforced is unconstitutional.. People are considered guilty first and have to prove their innocence.. The IRS takes all their money and property without due process of law, basically preventing most people from affording an adequate defense.. Its very thuggish and highway robbery-ish...
____________________ "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." - Thomas Paine |
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| Posted: Mon Mar 8th, 2010 03:00 am |
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YOGI Member
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AgentOregon wrote: YOGI wrote: AO...Such is a horribly disgusting thought that some Folks would do such a thing! I'll be less sympathetic for those the IRS manage to gain felony convictions for income tax evasion, though!!! Otherwise...PHOUCH IRS claims, OK? Although there's bound to be a lucrative IRS hunt for those engaging in flea marketeering, bartering and GOD FORBID...buying GOLD...do you have any idea IF capital gains taxes apply to such?
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| Posted: Mon Mar 8th, 2010 03:10 am |
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YOGI Member
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Neo wrote: YOGI wrote:Neo wrote:YOGI wrote:Neo wrote:YOGI wrote:NEO...Have you ever been self-employed? NEO...I fail to understand what part of assertions vs criminal convictions you don't get the gist of! Actually, I do not recall having filed an IRS tax return during '68-'71 when I was in the Military...maybe the ARMY filed for me... Last edited on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 03:15 am by YOGI |
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| Posted: Mon Mar 8th, 2010 03:26 am |
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Neo Head Loon - Original M.A.I.M.
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YOGI wrote: Neo wrote:YOGI wrote:Neo wrote:YOGI wrote:Neo wrote:YOGI wrote:NEO...Have you ever been self-employed? Terrific and I don't give a damn if you didn't file in the Nam era. Ya know, I guess you're right. Let's give Rangle his Chair back at Means and Ways and give Geithner and the rest of our Federal Employees from top to bottom, just a free pass on paying taxes which they expect the rest of us to do. While we're at it, why enforce ANY law in this nation. Let the fun begin! Whoooooooooooo Hooooooooooooo! 
____________________ (Avatar created by OMNT.) “Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” Winston Churhill |
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| Posted: Mon Mar 8th, 2010 05:27 pm |
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Mike Mitrosky Administrator
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YOGI wrote: AgentOregon wrote:YOGI wrote: Some years ago the treasury was auctioning off an old rare St. Gaudens $20 gold piece it had. The winning bid was $7.5 million.... The treasurer of the United States took a $20 BILL and gave it to the treasury in return for the $20 gold piece. He then took the $20 gold piece and exchanged it for the check for $7.5 million which promptly went to another govt agency instead of the treasury where any outflow would have to be approved by Congress... So as far as the govt is concerned.. there is no difference between a $20 gold piece and a $20 paper bill.
____________________ "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." - Thomas Paine |
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