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| A tide of anger on immigration | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 05:51 am |
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1st Post |
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Neo Head Loon - Original M.A.I.M. 
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http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2009/06/a_tide_of_anger_on_immigration.html A tide of anger on immigration by Gosia Wozniacka, The Oregonian Saturday June 20, 2009, 9:49 AM  Opponents of illegal immigration make their views known near a day laborer pickup location in Cornelius. Hot-button passions draw on a range of rationales, fears and emotions They are angry. Angry at their government. Angry with the news media. Mostly, angry at illegal immigrants and the problems they believe are caused by people who live in Oregon without proper documentation. Some are even angry at what they perceive to be too-high levels of legal immigration. Their e-mails, calls and online comments seem to skyrocket every time The Oregonian publishes a story that mentions "Hispanic," "Latino," "Mexican" or "immigrant," regardless of whether the subject's citizenship, legal status or national origin is mentioned or relevant. These people say the news media ignore, misrepresent or equate their views with being racist. And, they say, news and feature stories are routinely framed to elicit sympathy for people living illegally in the United States. Comments range from the seething ("What don't you get? ... We cannot let the entire world move to America.") to the extremist ("The Mexicans are all illegal, they're dirty, they're criminals, they're popping babies out as fast as they can make them and we just want them gone.") to the ridiculous ("You did not mention that the Spanish regard dogs as a source of food.") One recent story about a legislative proposal to offer in-state tuition rates to undocumented Oregon high school seniors triggered 142 online comments and dozens of e-mails, phone calls and letters to the editor. A feature story about so-called "food deserts" that tracked a Portland woman's efforts to buy groceries for her family, in the face of limited transportation and supermarket options, unleashed 88 comments and several letters. The woman happened to be Latina. And just last month, a news story that cited U.S. Census figures in reporting a surge in Oregon's Latino population drew 158 online comments within a few hours of the story appearing on OregonLive.com, in addition to numerous e-mails and phone calls. Most news stories on other topics draw only a smattering of comments; some none at all. Who are these commenters? And why are they so irate? Few recent Oregon polls or other studies exist on the topic. An April 2008 survey, conducted by Portland-based polling firm Moore Information, found that 70 percent of Oregon voters surveyed were "very concerned" (39 percent) or "fairly concerned" (31 percent) about illegal immigration, while 28 percent were "not concerned" and 2 percent "didn't know." Those who said they were "very concerned," the survey found, tended to be Republican, over the age of 45 and reside outside of Multnomah County. The survey of 1,000 people was commissioned by the Coalition for Working Oregon, a group of Oregon employers that favors immigration reform. Vulnerability feeds fear Fear of change and competition fuels negative views about immigration and illegal immigration, said Rita Simon, professor of public affairs at American University in Washington, D.C. National polls show, Simon said, that people with lower levels of education and a lower socioeconomic status, as well as older people, are more likely to feel threatened by illegal immigrants. "They're anti-immigrant because they are vulnerable," she said. "They're concerned that immigrants come in, take their jobs and replace them." Jim Ludwick, president of Oregonians for Immigration Reform, disagrees. He said OFIR, which opposes illegal immigration and wants legal immigration severely reduced, includes 1,500 members and attracts "people of every walk of life and from all ethnic backgrounds." Ludwick, 68, a retired pharmaceutical salesman who lives in McMinnville, said he believes most Oregonians support OFIR's message. "Americans have the sense of the rule of law and they are outraged when people put themselves above the law, like illegal aliens do," Ludwick said. Oregonians "value the livability and the environment of Oregon, and don't want to turn it into an overcrowded state."  Doug Beghtel, The Oregonian/2005Jim Ludwick, founder of Oregonians for Immigration Reform, says members of the group value the state's livability and worry that illegal immigrants will turn Oregon into an overcrowded state. But other analysts, such as Daniel HoSang, a political science professor at the University of Oregon, say those concerns don't necessarily transform into action. Last fall, Oregonians rejected Measure 58, which would have mandated English immersion and restricted bilingual education. And in April, a judge declared a Columbia County measure that would punish businesses employing illegal workers unenforceable and moot because of conflicts with federal law and various state authorities. "There's not much interest in scapegoat politics," HoSang said. "There isn't the audience, and the parties realize there's costs to this kind of strategy." In Oregon, restrictionist organizations like OFIR or the Minutemen "are close to becoming fringe organizations," HoSang said, and they don't represent large numbers of people. "You see their presence in debates like driving licenses or tuition equity," he said, "but we should not overestimate their ability to get people elected." The anger, though, is bound to stay, Simon said, because it's part of an old pattern. What characterizes the American public's attitude toward immigrants, she said, is the belief that immigrants who came earlier were better; those who are coming now are either not as good or downright dangerous. "When the Irish immigrants first came, there were riots. When the Chinese came, they were banned," Simon said. "Now the Irish and the Chinese are looked upon as a positive experience. Because many recent immigrants come from Mexico and are illegal, they now tend to get the ire." Listening sessions to understand anger As the newspaper's immigration reporter, I've come to expect emotional, angry responses to my stories and others. I've tracked and saved these responses for nearly a year, and they add up to hundreds critical of Latino immigration. Some people identify themselves. Many do not. Either way, they far outnumber those supportive of immigrants, including immigrants who may be here illegally. As President Barack Obama renewed his promise to tackle immigration reform and the nation geared up for another round of the debate, I set out to understand the reasoning and complexity behind their anger. I contacted about 40 people who had responded in the past, as well as OFIR. My goal: to see for myself what drives people's negative emotions and their interest in immigration. While Simon suggests it's fear of change, and Ludwick argues Oregonians fear an erosion of their quality of life, the answers proved less simple. Eleven people accepted my invitation for a face-to face interview: one-on-one at The Oregonian office, lasting an hour. Interviewees agreed to share some personal information and could bring materials to support their arguments. The interviews were not meant to confirm facts, dispute opinions or legitimize views. Rather, they were listening sessions. The interviewees, while polite and often friendly, spoke passionately. They did range in age, gender, education and ethnic background, and all live outside Multnomah County. While some didn't understand how the U.S. immigration system works, most were genuinely concerned about their families, their state and their country. Behind their anger, I discovered personal stories, diverse views and solutions, even traces of tolerance and empathy. And yes, some fear and misconceptions, too. Gosia Wozniacka covers immigration and Latino affairs for The Oregonian. Reach her at 503-294-5960 or gosiawozniacka@news.oregonian.com What should be done? Read all 11 interviews and offer your thoughts on about the estimated 12 million people believed to be living illegally in the United States. See more in Demographics, Politics, oped Comment: I'm interested in hearing/reading A.O.'s take on this article since he's living there. My take is that this is biased as it paints Republicans as basically racists because they're for border enforcement and the rule of law. One thing that I find amusing is the 2% that replied "didn't know". How the hell can you not know? You either understand the question put to you and have a view or you are an idiot. Interestingly, Oregon is a Blue State so I guess the Libs are starting to "get it" (except 2% of them) as their jobs go bye-bye and they begin to wake up and smell the illegal Mexican "coffee". Liberals are stupid but in today's world, they're beginning to become educated (well, except the aforementioned 2 %). 
____________________ (Avatar created by OMNT.) “Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” Winston Churhill |
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 08:01 am |
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2nd Post |
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OMNT Moderator 
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Here's the thing. If you own a business you might be a republican. If your business depends on labor you might turn a blind eye to who you hire. After all you have to turn a profit. I have never considered myself a liberal, there are too many freeloaders out there. I also never considered myself a conservative. There are too many greedy em effers out there. My opinion is that all americans should be, excuse me, are entitled, to be employed
____________________ Live the legend |
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 08:11 am |
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3rd Post |
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OMNT Moderator
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and I tell you what Neo, A man who I admire. That picture at the top of the post looks like there might be some photoshopping going on in regards to some of the slogans
____________________ Live the legend |
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 08:26 am |
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4th Post |
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OMNT Moderator
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ya know Neo I might be dying soon. My extremities are numb which I have researched on the internet to be liver failure. I should probably give you some business I always wanted to own the biggest baddest F 150 all tricked out. I want to drive down the road 12 feet high
____________________ Live the legend |
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 08:30 am |
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5th Post |
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OMNT Moderator
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Are you up for a visit?
____________________ Live the legend |
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 08:34 am |
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6th Post |
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OMNT Moderator
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Man I tell you what. I am having fantasies about driving a well appointed Ford truck from Arizona to shitcago
____________________ Live the legend |
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 08:35 am |
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7th Post |
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OMNT Moderator
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I might stop by at AO's place
____________________ Live the legend |
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 08:41 am |
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8th Post |
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OMNT Moderator
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Drivin a truck across country It may be the last thing I ever do. What a way to go out
____________________ Live the legend |
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 04:19 pm |
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9th Post |
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AgentOregon Lead Administrator 
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Well...don't screw around with a F-150...think F-350...4 x 4...SuperCab or CrewCab...big custom dual wheels...PowerStroke diesel V-8...black paint & tinted windows...and all the other bells & whistles.. Ford makes F-450s and F-550s and I've seen guys driving them as their family vehicle...but that's just stupid.
____________________ Youth is fleeting but immaturity can last a lifetime. AO Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. H.L.Mencken |
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 05:04 pm |
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10th Post |
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Neo Head Loon - Original M.A.I.M.
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OMNT wrote: ya know Neo I might be dying soon. My extremities are numb which I have researched on the internet to be liver failure. I should probably give you some business I always wanted to own the biggest baddest F 150 all tricked out. I want to drive down the road 12 feet high More likely Diabetes which would cause what is called Diebetic neurapathy. The diabetes slowly damages the nerve system causing numbness and tingling/pins and needles feeling in the extremeties, especially the feet. Speaking of F150's, I have to go to work now. My teams Sunday to work and they're making us move all 300+ vehicles. We have to move the ones on the West lot to the East lot and vice versa. It's going to be 104 out today and this should take all day. Apparantly selling isn't high on their priority list today. I'll do it for awhile but not all day as I wasn't hired as a lot rat and I'm too old for this bullshit. I'm also on blood thinners so I gotta watch myself in the heat and I'm not dropping dead because some nitwit GSM wants to play with his toys. I told the wife I will make a stand at some point today even if it means being fired. Anyways, you guys have a great day and HAPPY FATHERS DAY to all the Dad's here! 
____________________ (Avatar created by OMNT.) “Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” Winston Churhill |
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 06:01 pm |
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11th Post |
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YOGI Member 
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NEO...Ya still consuming RAT POISON??? How long's the protocol in your case? IF ya want to scare da hell out of yourself...start with PERIPHERAL NEUROPATHY...and fasten your seatbelt...
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 06:08 pm |
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12th Post |
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YOGI Member
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AgentOregon wrote: Well...don't screw around with a F-150...think F-350...4 x 4...SuperCab or CrewCab...big custom dual wheels...PowerStroke diesel V-8...black paint & tinted windows...and all the other bells & whistles.. LOL, AO! I had a client in this month driving a new FORD F-350, turbo diesel, full 4-dr crew-cab, 8' bed, 4WD, gorgeous paint, leather seats...told me it cost him $62,000!!! SHIT...For that kind of $$$ I want 3BR, 2 car garage, house wif'n an inground pool!
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 07:21 pm |
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13th Post |
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Casper Member 
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AgentOregon wrote: Well...don't screw around with a F-150...think F-350...4 x 4...SuperCab or CrewCab...big custom dual wheels...PowerStroke diesel V-8...black paint & tinted windows...and all the other bells & whistles.. think Toyota Tundra.....the last thing you need during your last living moments is to be stranded on the side of the road in a broken down Ford.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 07:24 pm |
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14th Post |
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Casper Member
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Neo wrote: OMNT wrote:ya know Neo I might be dying soon. My extremities are numb which I have researched on the internet to be liver failure. I should probably give you some business I always wanted to own the biggest baddest F 150 all tricked out. I want to drive down the road 12 feet high Diabetes is seriou shit.....need to get your blood sugar checked OMNT...my wifes a diabetic and shes only 42. She takes about 300 pills a day. and Happy Fathers day back to all.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 03:05 am |
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15th Post |
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Neo Head Loon - Original M.A.I.M.
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YOGI wrote: NEO...Ya still consuming RAT POISON??? How long's the protocol in your case? Yes I am. I have to do it until December/end of as I've been told by my doc.
____________________ (Avatar created by OMNT.) “Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” Winston Churhill |
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 03:13 am |
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16th Post |
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Neo Head Loon - Original M.A.I.M.
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Casper wrote: AgentOregon wrote:Well...don't screw around with a F-150...think F-350...4 x 4...SuperCab or CrewCab...big custom dual wheels...PowerStroke diesel V-8...black paint & tinted windows...and all the other bells & whistles.. Ahhh yes...the Toyota Tundra.....piece of Jap crap!
____________________ (Avatar created by OMNT.) “Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” Winston Churhill |
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 05:58 am |
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17th Post |
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YOGI Member
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Casper wrote: AgentOregon wrote:Well...don't screw around with a F-150...think F-350...4 x 4...SuperCab or CrewCab...big custom dual wheels...PowerStroke diesel V-8...black paint & tinted windows...and all the other bells & whistles.. LOL...Cheap imitation of a Chevy truck...especially the V-8...
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 08:08 pm |
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18th Post |
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OMNT Moderator
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AgentOregon wrote: Well...don't screw around with a F-150...think F-350...4 x 4...SuperCab or CrewCab...big custom dual wheels...PowerStroke diesel V-8...black paint & tinted windows...and all the other bells & whistles..It's been so long I don't actually have the terms right I once owned an EE 350 Or at least I think I did. It was a big Ford van It had two gas tanks. I was so fuckin full o balls i'd fill them up at the same time and try not to look into the admiring eyes of the women I was with. "oh billy you have TWO gas tanks." I think I have some balls left They must be lurking around there somewhere
____________________ Live the legend |
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 08:18 pm |
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19th Post |
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OMNT Moderator
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Casper wrote: AgentOregon wrote:the guy across the street from me has a Tundra, I'ts all for showWell...don't screw around with a F-150...think F-350...4 x 4...SuperCab or CrewCab...big custom dual wheels...PowerStroke diesel V-8...black paint & tinted windows...and all the other bells & whistles..
____________________ Live the legend |
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 08:36 pm |
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20th Post |
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OMNT Moderator
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Neo wrote: OMNT wrote:I've been thinking about that too Neo. Either way I don't give a crap. Helen's been gettin pissed of at me for my attitude. I think I can spend some money and make myself happy without cutting into her lifestyle.ya know Neo I might be dying soon. My extremities are numb which I have researched on the internet to be liver failure. I should probably give you some business I always wanted to own the biggest baddest F 150 all tricked out. I want to drive down the road 12 feet high Sounds like you're gettin old before you're time Neo. That doesn;'t make me very happy. You like to paint houses? I do that very well. I've been looking for a partner. It's hell working alone. No one to talk to Also there is no stress involved. Ther'es a reasonable amount of money in it. enough to make a living Plus
____________________ Live the legend |
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